>> rose: welcome to the program. i'm charlie rose. the program is "charlie rose: the week." just ahead, the president talks to us about hiss foreign policy. a look at "time" magazine's 100 most influential people. and comedian louis c.k. creates a new series for the web. >> i wanted them ton nothing and have no thoughts and no idea. they just know there's something new. >> rose: just jump in the river. >> just start watching. you should have this tension tension of i don't know what's going to happen and then when it's done, wow, that was really great. >> rose: we will have those stories and more on what happened and what might happen. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications >> rose: and so you began now howe? >> you have to land that plane. >> rose: is it luck at all or something jeels capitalize on >> try to be a positive force. >> rose: tell me the significance of the moment. this was the week president obama traveled to saudi arabia. donald trump and hillary clinton ran up big margins in the new york presidential primaries. and britain's queen elizabeth celebrated her 90th birthday. here are the sights and sounds of the past seven days. >> music fans around the world are remembering prince. >> landmarks across the country glowing in purple. >> the cast of broadway's "hamilton" remembered prince. jennifer hudson's nod to the icon, alongside her cast. >> i wish all of you the best on this fascinating journey. it ain't over. >> in southern japan, there are

still people missing after two powerful earthquakes. the u.s. military is joining relief efforts. >> tight security in boston as the city gears up for its marathon today. it wasn't about winning but sending a memg of perseverance. >> i ran with the city in my heart. >> victory is in sight. >> clinton and trump dominate new york. >> we don't have much of a race anymore. senator cruz is just about mathematically eliminated. >> this is the year of the outsider. i'm an outsider. bernie sanders is an outsider. millions of americans have chosen one of these outsiders. >> i must say that i am really concerned about the conduct of the voting process in new york state. >> rose: deadly flooding swamps texas. >> we're just trying to rescue as many people as we can. there are a lot of kids involved. >> the first criminal charges connected to the flint water crisis. >> two state regulators and a city employee will be charged. >> queen elizabeth is turning 90. >> she will be celebrating all day and for the next couple of

months ♪ happy bir the field ♪ hello wall >> rose: a unique rally at the barcelona open. >> work that is excellent work by that ball boy. >> face first right into the wall ♪ money, money, money >> harriet harriet tubman man is going to replace andrew jackson on the $20 bill. ♪ money, money, money ♪ >> rose: donald trump and hillary clinton were both big winners in the new york presidential primaries this week. the nominating race now enters the home stretch with primaries tuesday in pennsylvania, maryland, rhode island, delaware, and connecticut. for reaction and analysis, we turn to our panel. >> trump, a huge victory in new york. does that clearly put him on a pathway to 1,237 $s? >> it sure does. i'm a great believener momentum.

he's still got a struggle-- california, which was my home state originally, will sort of be the alamo if he does pretty well there. i think he will do well next week. if he does well there, he will come close to the delegates. >> can hillary segue to the general election? >> we'll see her start to make that pivot. she has to win just 27% of the remaining delegates and uncommitted superdelegates. she can lose by huge margins in all the states but there's no indication bernie sanders is anything to drop out any time soon, and really why would he? he has the money. he has the enthusiasm. 28,000 prime here in prospect park. >> he wants to speak in prime-time in july. >> so he'll still be in the game. the question is whether he starts pivoting away from attacks or leaning into them. and if he's leaning into them, that laib problem for her. hey both won in their home states, her adopted home state. does it tell us about the

candidates or the american election this year? >> i was really happy as a native new york tore see the return of culinary populism. you have to do hot dogs and coney island. >> never eat pizza with a fork. >> no, no. although, i'm thinking about that. i actually did once. but, you know, i'm tempted to say that the nomination process pretty much ended in both parties, except for the fact this is 2016, and we don't know what's going to happen next. we don't know what's going to happen next week. i think that the real issue now is both candidates have to solve something going forward. for hillary, it is the enthusiasm gap. and for trump, it's whether or not he's going to try to be a conventional politician. >> let's assume for a second that cruz or kasich, that kasich does well in pennsylvania. crudz then does well in indian at next week. that changes the big mo, as we were talking about just a minute ago. california, you know, on june 7, it's what, 172 delegates.

winner take all by 53-- by 53 cds. >> cruz has been in there for six months. cruz has all the conservative leaders. he has worked that state very, very hard. normally, it's a media state but i think in this particular case it will be about grass-roots efforts. if the election were next week, cruz would win it, i think, easily. >> man what a year, the nomination decided in the bronx and berkeley. who would have thought, right? >> rose: president obama's midway through a trip to saudi arabia. britain and germany, the president's visit visits are meo firm up u.s. alliances and help set his foreign policy legacy. that was also the subject might have conversation with the president at the white house on

monday. >> the hallmark, i hope of my foreign policy has been to be very practical in thinking about how do we advance u.s. interests? how do we make sure the united states is safe and secure? but for importantly from the actions we've taken since i've been president is somebody who is committed to keeping americans safe, gl after anybody who is going after us, whether it's isil or al qaeda or bin laden or anybody else. >> rose: what do you define as gegged bogged down in the middle east. >> what is true, number one, i think our invasion of iraq was a mistake. that's well known. that was part of what the the debate back in 2008 was about. what i believe is that the united states as the world's singular superpac has an obligation in all areas of the world where there's mayhem and war and conflict for us to try to be a positive force.

but that does not mean that we should be deploying troops everywhere where a crisis is taking place. you know, probe the area where i've gotten the most criticism from some in the foreign policy establishment here in washington is around syria. >> rose: and the red line. >> situation, and there what you have is people who i think instinctively feel that where something is going wrong, where we have a problem, the solution is for the united states to send its military in and impose order. so the notion that while we were still biz neafghanistan, still trying to keep iraq together, that we would now then potentially involve ourselves in another military excursion in syria. that's the kind of unwise decision making this i think leads us to make big mistakes, and ultimately, also miss out on

opportunities elsewhere in the world. >> rose: some say you're putting too much emphasis on what we don't do and not enough emphasis on the choices we might have to do. >> yeah, and i've heard this argument, and, look, charlie, with we sat down together back in 2009, when i first came into office, we were still in the midst of two active wars. and since that time we've been able to wind down active combat in those two theaters. those countries are by no means in great shape, but they are not in significantly worse shape than had we left 20 or 30 or 40,000 troops there. and diplomatically, we've been able to make sure iran doesn't have nuclear weapons. we've been able to at least begin the process of political kitchens in syria and a cessation of hostilities. we are, in the meantime, taking out terrorists constantly.

see the not as if we are passive and standing by. al qaeda's core has been dismantled. bin laden is dead. isil is losing territory. and so i've shown no hesitance to use our military where necessary to protect american lives, american interests. >> rose: but let me focus on the red line decision that you made. >> sure. >> rose: many look at that and say because you did not and you went over the opposition of some of your advisers, which is what a president is expected to do. >> right. >> rose: make the hard choices, that what we have today in part because of that decision we have a devastated state. we've had close to 500,000 people die and we've had refugees of up to four million people. >> right and so -- >> those-- >> so let me respond. first of all, the state was devastated at the same time we were thinkin thinking about makt

decision. >> rose: but much worse today. >> hold ocharlie. at that point you already had a couple of hundred thousand dead. the state had already been shattered. and the question, very narrowly, even among those who criticized me was do we take a one-off, a pinpoint strike to send a message to assad so that he would no longer use chemical weapons because the red line i had set was if you use chemical weapons we are going to make a different calculation in terms of how we view the conflict there. now, in fact, as a consequence of the steps i took and the tiploamacy that we engaged in, assad removed the vast majority of those chemical weapons from syria. there was never a claim that had i taken military action because of those chemical weapons that we would have resolved the civil war in syria. the notion that by sending a few

missile strikes into syria, that we would have resolved the syrian conflict is simply not borne out by any of the subsequent facts. >> rose: beyond that, as you know, there's this question of red line, and if you announce a red line and somebody crosses the red line that it raises questions about your will, your dependability, and your credibility. >> except for the fact that we ended up removing those chemical weapons, essentially, syria david. they gave in. with the help of the russians, they, for the first time acknowledged that they had chemical weapons, signed up for the international treaty saying that they would not have chemical weapons and systematically removed them. now, if the notion is that i have been hesitant to use military force and the people doubt my willingness to do so, i think, as i've said before, they should ask bin laden. >> rose: do you ever ask yourself, if we had done more, we would not be looking at the catastrophe we're looking at now? >> look, charlie, every single

day i make decisions. the and, you know, you are working with probabilities. so in libya, we did take out a dictator who was threatening his own people. as i've said before, i actually believe that of the right decision. i think had we not gone in, we would have seen another syria in libya, but libya is still a big problem. and a mess. and i think we did not do as good of a job as we should have. and i didn't do as good of a job as i should have in thinking through the aftermath and how much work was going to be required in putting the pieces of that country back together again. and that's a much simpler proposition than in syria. >> rose: what's the test for you when you want to use american force? >> we are always prepared to use force. unilaterally if need be, to protect the american people.

so you're asking a narrow question is where should we be willing to intervene militarily because we have a duty to protect other people, because things are getting chaotic and we need to impose order and so forth? and my approach is not to say we've got some perfect test that we can apply. each situation is different. the costs and the benefits of our intervention are going to be different each and every time. but i think what we can say is that wherever possible, we should first and foremost try to get other countries to work with us to see if we can solve the problem. where the costs of our military intervention are manageable and the benefits are potentially high, then i think it makes sense. >> rose: going to iraq, my question is what do you think can be accomplished in the battle against isis in iraq

before your term of office ends? i'm thinking of the recapture of mosul specifically. >> well, we've made significant progress. this is a long, hard fight as i just said last week. but what we've seen is they've lost territory, and as we get closer to mosul in iraq and raqqa in syria-- they're two primary strongholds-- what i've said to our secretary of defense and our generals is let's continue to resource what works. and as we see the iraqis willing to fight and gaining ground, let's make sure that we're providing them more support. we're not doing the fighting ourselves, but when we provide training, when we provide special forces who are backing them up, when we are gaining intelligence working with the coalitions we have, what we've seen is we can continually tighten the noose. my expectation is by the end of the year we will have created the conditions whereby mosul will eventually fall.

>> rose: creating the conditions. >> but i don't know yet. we don't know what's going to be the actual situation on the ground as to whether something will have been launched. and i think it's important-- and this is based on constant consultations with the iraqi government and iraqi military with our own military wour coalition members-- what we've tried to do is let's make sure that we're being very methodical. let's make sure across the board, if we say we're going to get something done, that we've done it in the right way. >> rose: i will continue my conversation with president obama in germany on monday. you will be able to see it on my nightly program on tuesday night. >> rose: who are the world's most influential people? "time" magazine is out with its choices. it is called "the 13th annual power list of the 100

titans, pioneers, artists, leaders, and icons who shape our world." joining me now is radia jones, the deputy editor of "time" and she is the one, i hear, who is in charge of this. welcome. >> thank you for having me, charlie. >> rose: how is this list different, say, from last year, the year before, the year before, is composition, recognition of certain kinds of things making this special? >> well, the list is about influence, and it doesn't really bow to any particular metric. when we start thinking about the list four or five amongst out, and we just try to think very broadly about who is sort of owning their field? who is rising? who is having influence, not just, perhaps, in a single lane, but sort of across boundaries. and also who are the people-- you know, we're a news exphagz we cover every aspect of --

>> culture, science, technology. >> exactly. so who are the people in each of those areas who really are starting conversations and making us think? and, you know, there's a way to do a list like this where you sort of have the same 90 people year after year. but we really want to keep it fresh because we want it to feel like a snapshot of the moment. and so we take a lot of pride in making sure that every year the list has a new kind of energy. >> rose: but at the same time, there are people who perennially appear here, like the president of the united states. >> the president of the united states. >> rose: like the president of russia. >> yes. >> rose: like angela merkel. >> yes, what's interesting about those three examples, yes, they've been on the list many times, but the aspects of their leadership that we choose to highlight every year change. and that's what keeps it fresh for us, and i hope what keeps it fresh for the readers. >> rose: i have some favorites. >> excellent, let's hear them.

>> rose: stephan curry. he has changed basketball, has had a phenomenal year and made the three-point shot. >> let me tell you, i resisted it for a while because i grew up in the era of michael jordan. >> rose: oh, prejudice, prejudice, prejudice. >> but he is phenomenal in a totally different way. people really look up to him. he's a role model. we had misty copeland write the piece about him, another legend. >> rose: how do you choose people to write? for instance, when i was on the list, you chose michael bloomberg. here is linawrdo dicaprio and he gets john kerry. why john kerry? >> we wanted to highlight a very particular aspect of leonardo dicaprio's influence. we all saw him win an oscar this year. it was a long-awaited moment for an actor.

he is also a very powerful environmentalist. and he and john kerry have worked together on a number of things. and john kerry's piece brings out that side of him, which we hope will be instructive to readers. >> rose: here's what's interesting, too. here is mark zuckerberg and his wife. mark has been on before. >> he has. >> rose: and they're here together, and bill and linda gates, another couple of equal weight and challenge and shared ambition. >> this was a fun one to think about. of course, this was the year mark zuckerberg and priscilla chan wrote an open letter to their new daughter talking about their plans to fund an initiative that would funnel money toward innovation and moonshots and so we wanted them to be on the list together because we felt like they represented a new generation of philanthropy and activism. >> rose: pope francis is-- the list. >> he is on the list. >> rose: and why is he on the list? >> give me a good reason why he

shouldn't be. >> rose: the comedian louis c.k. has worked in cable, television, and film. now he has added the internet to his resume. "horace and pete's" is louis c.k.'s new series and stars alan alda and edie falco. here is what's different about it. it is only available for a price, a small price, on his web site. >> it just grabbed me. i just believed in it. as soon as i started writing it. i've had a lot of ideas for different kind of shows, but there's this test, does it write? can you actually get out the scripts? i started writing it this summer, and it just kept coming episode after episode, and i realized i'm writing something that is worth shooting so i started to get to work producing it. >> rose: what about the actors? >> steve buscemi called me to do

a benefit for a firefighter thing -- >> and you said, "i'll do your benefit, but by the way?" >> i happened to be writing it. i wasn't sure where it was going yet. i had him on the show, we were chatting we're friend. i said, "do you want to do a show?" he said, yeah, sure. and i said we're brothers. and i saw an article about edie falco saying that she's done with nurse jackie. >> rose: you said boom. >> she's one of my favorites. i wrote her into it. and i was at the emmies and she's sitting with nobody next to her, i so i just sat next to her and said, "i wrote a part for you in my new show." the writing is what attracts the people. if you don't write in a way that interests them, then they won't be in it. >> rose: you didn't roll it this out with a lot of fanfare. >> no, no fanfare. the opposite. i made it a secret. >> rose: why that? >> because i found that really interesting, the idea it's way shows are present to the audience, they tell you as much as possible ahead of time because they want to get you--

they just want to get to you look at it. they want to show you as much as they can so if it's the kind of thing you like, you'll take a look. but to me that feels backward. in order, it's like tasting something before you eat it. it's like you want to discover a thing and go, "i don't know what this is." >> rose: you want what, you want-- >> i want them to know nothing and have no thoughts, no ideas. >> rose: just jump in the river. >> you should just start watching. you should have this tension of i don't know what's going to happen. and when it's done gu, wow, that was really great. >> rose: and i'll come back for the next episode. >> and when it's done you're like i'm really glad i watched it. >> rose: you said it's the best thing you have done. >> my favorite thing i have done. i think it's the best work i have done. yes, i think so. >> rose: but did you believe it would be a success. >> i didn't know either way. i didn't think of it that way. >> rose: do you care? >> yes, i'd like people to see it. i would like tons of people to

see it, i would. and i would like to be able to do a show like this again. >> rose: you. >> rose: you self-financed this. >> yes, i paid for it. what's money for? >> rose: to spend on things you want to do. >> exactly. to me it's more interesting to do that than have it stored up somewhere, sitting accruing interest. i could be dead tomorrow, you know. >> rose: exactly. and if you need money for anything you can any out-- >> i can go out on the road. so far. so far. you can always get checkmated. you always have to know at some point one or two things could go expwrong suddenly you're really screwed. but everybody lives that way. >> rose: here's is a look at the week ahead. sunday is the season premiere of hbo's "game of thrones." monday is the day president obama and german chancellor angela merkel tour the han over trade show. tuesday the peabody award winners are announced. wednesday is the ascap music

awards are presented in los angeles. thursday is the first day of the national football league last draught. friday is the 100th anniversary of the end of ireland's easter rising. saturday is the white house correspondents' association annual dinner. and here is what's new for your weekend. >> the tribeca film festival continues in new york. stevie wonder, pearl jam, red hot chili peppers and neal young kick off the weekend of new orleans jazz and heritage festival. and charlize theron, in "the huntsman." >> what are you going to be of to do be the hero who saves the entire kingdom? >> pretty much. >> rose: that's charlie rose the week. for this week, on behalf of all

of us here, thanks for watching. i'm charlie rose, and we'll see you next time. we leave tonight with a remembrance of prince. of of ♪ till my guitar gently weeps captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: welcome to the show. we begin this evening with david cohen, deputy director of the c.i.a. >> it's important to understand that sanctions in and of themselves are not the tool that's going to fundamentally alter behavior. they are part of an overall effort, and with respect to the sanctions against russia for their activities, their aggression in ukraine, i think there is a fair debate and some intelligence to back this up that it did have an impact on the trajectory of what was happening in eastern ukraine. >> rose: meaning they might have done more if the sanctions had not been applied? they might have been more aggressive with other ball tick countries? >> i'm not going to get into any great detail on this, but i do think that you can make a credible argument that the